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What More Can I Say (With a Brief Update from the Original)

By July 28, 2021Commentary

The only thing that spreads faster than CV-19 is panic about CV-19.  It has been a while since I pointed this out, but you can’t spell pandemic without panic.  (And what party abbreviation do those other three letters stand for?  Hmmmm) (For the record, I am a free-market libertarian.)  After all this time, I would like to believe that my beloved skepticism, even cynicism, had been adopted by the majority of my fellow citizens in regard to any pronouncement from our political leaders, physicians, scientists and most of all, public health experts.  Could there have been a worse record of performance from this group?  No.

Now, I don’t really believe this because the consequences are too severe for all of us, but I do take more than a little pleasure watching the alleged Biden administration (who the hell is really in charge over there?) which only got elected because of the epidemic and whose handling of the epidemic is the only issue on which there has been (no more) a positive rating, flop and flounder like the beached fish in rapidly-lowering Lake Mead.  Their credibility is shot and this abysmally incompetent group is setting up the Dems for an epic fail in the next few elections.  Simply epic.  And I will enjoy every moment.  I vote that we for free move all progressives to California and New York, let anyone else in those states move for free to somewhere else, and then divorce those two states.  They can keep DC too.  Then the rest of us can return to sane government and policy.

Notwithstanding my exasperation with the failure of common sense and skepticism to prevail, I will try one more time to simply list why we shouldn’t get all hysterical again and what data our supposed government experts should be providing.

Let’s start with Delta.  Contrary to the misinformation being spread by many, including the so-called experts, the research to date shows:

  1.  It has a lower hospitalization and death rate.
  2. It is perhaps somewhat more transmissible.
  3. It does not result in substantially higher viral loads.
  4. Vaccines are only marginally less effective against Delta infections.
  5. It does not have a worse impact on children.

Now let us move on to vaccine effectiveness, where we find that:

  1.  People who are vaccinated can get infected, but do so at lower rates than the unvaxed.
  2. People who are vaccinated and get infected have lower viral loads than the unvaxed who become infected.
  3. People who are vaccinated and get infected are less likely to be infectious and transmit.
  4. People who are vaccinated have much lower rates of hospitalization and death than do those who are unvaccinated and get infected.
  5. The research is actually mixed as to whether vaccination or prior infection provides a stronger adaptive immune response.
  6. If you understand adaptive immunity, whether from infection or vaccination, in regard to respiratory viruses, none of the above is a surprise, e.g., the performance of flu vaccines and the difficulty in developing an RSV vaccine.

Now what do we need, other than a complete replacement of said political leaders and experts.

  1.  Provide case, hospitalization and death data by vaccination status and give us days after second dose that the case was identified in the case of “fully” vaccinated individuals.  Full adaptive immunity is unlikely in 14 days, it takes weeks for memory B and T cells to be completely in place.
  2. Give us the age structure of cases, hospitalizations and deaths in the vaccinated as well as the unvaccinated.
  3. Show us at least a very representative sample of cycle numbers from supposedly positive PCR tests in both the vaxed and unvaxed cases.  I am certain this will reveal much higher cycle numbers and lower viral loads in the vaxed cases.
  4. Do representative sampling of supposed positives from vaxed and unvaxed persons and attempt to culture the test swabs.  I am again certain this will show much less presence of viable virus among the vaxed group.
  5. Give us complete reinfection cases among the unvaccinated, including hospital and death rates.  Reinfections among the unvaxed are the equivalent of breakthrough infections in the vaxed and a direct comparison about rates and outcomes would be helpful.
  6. Stop hiding how many hospitalizations listed as CV-19 ones aren’t actually for CV-19.  The state of Minnesota started doing this for breakthrough infections but it should be done for all cases, so we can compare true serious outcomes.

Finally, come up with better and more accurate messaging on how respiratory virus vaccines should be expected to work.  Stop calling them breakthrough infections; the virus isn’t breaking through some physical barrier.  Give people at least a rudimentary explanation of how adaptive immunity works.  Explain that adaptive immunity is weaker in older persons and those with serious health issues, so we can expect to see cases and even serious illness continue among that group.  Once more, for the three millionth time, tell people this virus is not going away, we will live with it, we will adapt to it, we will have preventive and treatment measures that are effective, but it ain’t disappearing.  And life is too short and too valuable to waste it in futile attempts to avoid CV-19.

I just have to note as well, after I wrote this, that could there be worse messaging than the CDC telling vaccinated people to wear masks.  Readers know that I don’t find any evidence to suggest masks play any role in limiting transmission in the community.  I have summarized my reasons for that repeatedly.  And what is the point in pushing, even forcing people to get vaccinated if they have to still abide by all the same futile and stupid restrictions.  But at least the CDC is consistent, they have done an absolutely atrocious job of communication.

That, that, that’s all folks!!!


Join the discussion 27 Comments

  • J. Thomas says:

    Almost … all of this VAX, VAX, VAX info and not a mention about the proper use of therapeutics BEFORE you turn blue and go the the ER !! Nor the millions of cases of malpractice that have led to a majority of the deaths by (so called) Doctors sending people home, caving into the medical establishment who yanked these safe and effective medications from their treatment options.

  • Christopher B says:

    I think your last point really sums up everything else. It just seems to me that 99% of the panic is driven by the false belief that there is a magic wand to wave that will eliminate COVID, whether it’s masks or vaccinations or social isolation. People just don’t understand the years and years of vaccination and other programs that went into the virtual elimination of small pox world wide and diseases like measles in the U.S, and why those efforts actually worked (I believe it’s largely because they aren’t respiratory illnesses)

  • Richard Allison says:

    COVID-19 Vaccines and Vaccination Report

    Updated July 27, 2021

    “Studies from India with vaccines not authorized for use in the United States have noted relatively high viral loads and larger cluster sizes associated with infections with Delta, regardless of vaccination status.(96) These early data suggest that breakthrough Delta infections are transmissible. Unpublished data are consistent with this, and additional data collection and studies are underway to understand the level and duration of transmissibility from Delta vaccine breakthrough infections in the United States and other settings.”

    Above report footnote 96 citation would suggest that the CDC’s assertion yesterday that they have data showing vaccinated individuals can transmit delta variant due to similar viral load as unvaccinated is partially based off of…a model…using non-US approved vaccines.


    One item you forgot: gather all the data you listed for the certifiably infected that have not been vaccinated.

  • David says:

    CDC Media Telebriefing July 27th: “The delta variant is showing every day its willingness to outsmart us and be an opportunist …”

    Stop anthropomorphizing a virus. All the covid viruses in the world put together have ZERO intelligence.

  • Mark G Hamilton says:

    Thank You…Thank You…Thank You…

  • Greg Stafford says:

    Please provide a link to the assertion it is not hitting kids more frequently. This lie is being repeated in the argument about opening our schools and I need material to fight back,

  • J. Thomas got the jump on me, so I’ll just try and back him up.

    Kevin Roche makes many good points, and I commend him for each of them. But the fact that WHAT TREATMENTS THE PATIENTS DO OR DO NOT RECEIVE did not make his list of what we should know is quite the jaw-dropper indeed.

    If we had a direct comparison (a thing that would be all too easy to do if only we tried) of how patients who received early, Ivermectin-led protocols fared vs. those who did not, everything about this virus and its effects on the U.S. and the world would change overnight, and all for the better.

    No voice on this whole virus issue can even begin to claim worthiness of being much listened to if said voice outright ignores the actual treatments that people are being given or denied. Think about it: “I am an expert on this medical issue, and I say right here and now no one should ask what treatments people are being given, as such a thing could not possibly matter. I mean, really – since when does it matter to their eventual outcomes what treatments patients are given?”

    That’s the class of “expert” mentality we’re dealing with – here, there and just about everywhere. All we hear is if people died or not, or maybe if they were hospitalized or not, but not a word about the details of what they were given as treatments from initial onset to final status.

    Whoever would have us listen to their words on Covid, if they won’t talk about treatments, they’re not to be taken seriously. Period.

  • Jesse Ryan says:

    Kevin, on one hand, you promote vaccine efficacy. On the other, you write, “People who are vaccinated can get infected, but do so at lower rates than the unvaxed.” You obviously read the news and med lit. So, without citation, it’s worthwhile to note that people that claim to be vaccinated are tested at a much lower cycle threshold (hospitals), and people that claim to NOT be vaccinated are tested at a ridiculously high cycle threshold (hospital and testing centers). I want to note that you speak to this in your second set of bullet points, “Show us, at least, a very representative sample of cycle numbers from supposedly positive PCR tests in both the vaxed and unvaxed cases.” Actually, your second set of bullet points is spot on. It’s odd that you acknowledge the data shortcomings, and still trust ANY reporting. GIGO!

    At some point, you should address VAERS data and the large number of AE reported. Despite the reporting bias, it’s the only data available to the public AFAIK. Looking specifically at deaths, to date, there exist >4000 reported deaths in VAERS post COVID-19 vaccination. 2800 deaths have occurred between zero to fourteen days; almost 2000 between zero and five days. I didn’t think 4000 people even knew that VAERS existed. Considering how underreported AE are in VAERS, we should conclude that these are significant numbers worthy of investigation.

  • Tim Pyle says:

    What Brad Crawford said.

  • J. Thomas says:

    It’s blatantly obvious (unless you are glued to the network news) that the only reason the therapeutics were shelved was to pave the way for the zillions of dollars related to a global EUA vaccine rollout. Back that up with more zillions of dollars for the ‘boosters’ and ‘next gen’ mRNA supposed treatments of future Covid viruses (even though there’s still ZERO evidence of isolating this one which was apparently patented (along with the testing kits) years ago.

    The whole thing is a GIANT Cluster F**k of coordinated global government take overs of what’s left of the free world. Either we stand up and fight back, leveraging the US’s global leadership in times of trouble, or we succumb to the tyranny. Each one of us has a choice to make. I know we like our cushy lives, they have been hard earned in most cases. But we need to vote with our actions and our feet, not our Twitter Accounts.

    Pull your kids out of the government run schools, force a country wide shutdown of the teacher’s and their unions. You’ll forego one year of a crappy CRT education for complete control of their futures in a different system. The private education markets will continue to develop and that’ll be the end it. No one cares about your grandma, sorry … we have to fight for our children’s future at this point.

    If all of the Drs. and nurses walked out on the hospitals who were forcing them to be Gennie Pigs, they would stop forcing this issue.

    If every pilot refused to fly a plane until the VAX and mask mandates were cancelled, it would end it.

    STAND UP people, find your courage, fight back with your feet.

  • Geo says:

    I’m not a doctor, but I am a scientist, and I have been appalled at how poorly the data has been managed and organized regarding CV19. If we had a proper statistical analyses of the data (who is getting infected, where, how, what were the circumstances? how sick did they get? What were their underlying conditions?) we could formulate highly effective strategies with a sound basis in science. Instead we get these garbage numbers, and hence develop garbage policies to deal with them. People who say they are following the science are practicing Scientism, or cargo cult science, which is just going through the motions of science without actually understanding it at all.

    Where are the cross tabs for the data?

  • Chris Foley MD says:

    Adding to Brad’s post above with which I agree entirely. No mention is made of the horrendous damage being done — some immediate like death and others TBD over the years. 40 trillion mRNA copies make one a spike protein mfgr facility, and ALL of these embed in the endothelium of small vessels. Millions of microthrombi, yet some only feel “a bit off” after a few days. Many do not want to admit that they have lost horsepower aand stamina. I have had 2 patients with asymptomatic hematuria lasting for weeks post vaccine. You do not get to grow back nephrons, neurons, nor alveoli! Wake up folks: the risk:benefit ratio is simply not there, especially now that we know that transmission is not only not prevented but may be PROMOTED. This for an illness with a 99.7% survival –and those data were derived without vitamin D status randomization.

    I recommend AGAINST the vax, bone up your D, Se, and Zn status, and find an MD who can spell ivermectin. IVECAR — topical ivermectin drops and carageenan nasal spray is proven to prevent infection and is HARMLESS. The Delta variant is a nuthingburger, and masks do nothing as well. Fight back!

  • Joe Wolff says:

    Brad Crawford is best comment… ditto! Especially last paragraph

  • The Dark Lord says:

    “People who are vaccinated can get infected, but do so at lower rates than the unvaxed.” that is physically and medically impossible … EVERYONE gets infected if exposed to the virus for long enough … the vaccinated get less sick and infectious …

  • Leslie Wolf says:

    Please provide some information on Ivermectin. I was able to get 20 tablets of Ivermectin, with a 5-tablet dosage instruction, but don’t know how long to take them. Is this a one-time ingestion? or does one have to continue taking the pills forever? Should I start the regimen only if I get flu-like symptoms? or what? What is the difference between the tablet and the liquid versions? How does Ivermectin compare with hydroxychloriquin (sp?)? I’ve read that people in Africa have been taking hydroxychloriquin for years (as an anti-parasitic) and have a low infection rate for Covid, perhaps as a result. Do we need to continue taking Ivermectin for ‘years’ as well?

    • Kevin Roche says:

      this really isn’t a blog about medical advice, so I strongly encourage you to talk to a physician

  • Riffing off Tim Pyle above: What Chris Foley said.

    And thanks to Dr. Foley and Tim Pyle and Joe Wolff for their kind words.

    And a special thanks to our host, Kevin Roche, who lets us say what we have to say – no small thing these days.

  • Ed says:

    The biggest mistakes are (1) not focusing on improved treatment protocols instead of prevention which over the long term is impossible and (2) not doing the analysis for 3 categories – the unvaccinated that have never been infected as evidenced by no antibodies (to rule out prior asymptomatic infection), the unvaccinated who have tested positive, and the vaccinated. In any sufficiently large population there are always “mixed” results. But it is quite clear that recovery from COVID provides similar if not superior protection. The mRNA shots (I don’t consider it a true vaccination in the usual meaning of vaccination) trigger an immune response based on the presence of the spiked protein that the mRNA shots instruct our cells to create. There is no virus present. So our immune response is based solely on the presence of spiked protein that is the container for the virus in the wild. Surviving an actual infection results in an immune response to viral replication. So the immune system is recognizing and attacking the virus itself. Two different approaches to preventing viral replication. The mRNA shots attempt to prevent viral replication by destroying the container carrying the virus before it can dock with the cell and deliver the viral payload. The natural immunity response is to destroy the virus before it can replicate itself. A single virus infiltrating a single cell can replicate itself 600,000 times before expiring if there is no immune response. It is likely the mRNA shots do a better job preventing viral load from increasing because the virus doesn’t get a chance to infiltrate a cell – when they work. But there is also a greater chance that variations of the spiked protein fool the immune system and they are probably more susceptible to not working as well as antibody levels drop (hence the need for booster shots). That is because they work by antibodies quickly surrounding the spiked protein containing the virus and preventing docking with the cell. The lower the antibody levels the fewer antibodies are available to isolate spiked protein. So it probably depends on the viral load of the exposure – too many spiked proteins with too few antibodies = infection and viral replication. But in the mRNA shot the T-cell response (T-cells actually do the killing after the antibodies isolate the spiked protein) is for the spiked protein – not the virus. There was no virus in the mRNA shots. So there never was any viral replication. So the T=cells never recognized the virus or learned how to attack and kill it. In natural immunity developed due to an actual infection where the host survives the virus does get into cells, it does start replicating, the immune system recognizes the virus itself so the T-cells learn and remember how to kill the virus itself. The T-cell memory is much longer – maybe lifelong – than the length of time antibodies survive and circulate. So in the scenario of lower antibody levels and exposure to high viral load the mRNA shots are less effective at preventing infection and when infection does occur it takes the body’s immune system longer to respond because it has never experienced the actual virus. Natural immunity probably allows viral replication but the response by the immune system is much faster in quickly killing the virus. This virus is here to stay. Just like the common cold which is due to a similar virus. It is likely more resilient than any other virus since it’s origins are gain-of-function research just like a tomato hybrid bread from multiple generations of tomatoes that survive drought is going to be more drought resistant than other varieties or it’s previous iterations. Our so-called experts create a problem and then we are supposed to trust them for the solution to the problem they created? Masks in anything other than clinical environments where they are handled properly, donned properly, disposed of every few minutes not only do not prevent spread but they likely increase it. The virus is too small to be blocked and it lives too long that contact spread doesn’t occur. All the masks do is provide moisture and vacuum up lots of pathogens and keep them conveniently in close proximity to our mouths, noses, eyes, ears, etc. They get touched constantly and transfer pathogens to other surfaces like phones and tables that other people come into contact with. They reduce oxygen and increase carbon dioxide. They pollute. They make things worse – not better. Our entire response from the masks to the shots that require two and weeks to be effective in the middle of an outbreak has made the pandemic much worse, caused more variants in the virus, and done untold damage in virtually every possible thing you can think of from relationships to economics. The focus should have been on treatment protocols and using widely available, safe, effective drugs like ivermectin which has not had a single trial that showed no improvement. The results are “mixed” but always positive and it has been around for more than 5 decades so the safety record not only in humans but in animals is well documented. It most likely helps by lowering the viral load since it is somewhat anti-viral but mostly by lowering inflammation which occurs due to immune response. It keeps the inflammation in check while the immune system is attacking and killing the virus. So with less inflammation there is less damage to cells including vital organs and the brain. So the outcomes are better. Other simple things like making sure everyone has an O2 monitor so they can keep a check on their oxygen levels and know when to seek medical help. It would have been far cheaper with fewer hospitalizations and deaths if everyone had been given a packet including a thermometer, an O2 meter, and Ivermectin with instructions for dosage based on weight plus maybe D3, Zinc, Vitamin C. If you test positive start tracking O2 and take the Ivermectin and vitamins as instructed. Very few people would have ended up hospitalized and even fewer would have died. No lockdowns. No shutdowns. Just continue with your life as usual, wash your hands, sneeze or cough into the crook of your arm, if you feel sick get tested then stay home until results are known. If you test positive follow the protocol and watch O2 levels. But there isn’t hundreds of billions of dollars to be made or the ability to further increase power over people with that response so it isn’t what happened. This virus was seen as (if not engineered for) a way to increase the power of governments worldwide and the wealth of the ultra wealthy. Greed and power. Nothing new. Those responsible have untold deaths on their hands and they will one day answer for it. Even if they get away with it in this world they will not escape judgement. But the incessant push for vaccination despite the fact that for some people it can be risky and for some ineffective in preventing infection. In any sufficiently large group there will be negative outcomes for some of the people. That is why mandates do not work – because some of the people included in the mandate will have very negative outcomes. It is a basic human right to choose what risks you are willing to take. People should be given the facts including both the pros and the cons of vaccination. They should understand the basic mechanisms for how the vaccines work and what their limitations are. Mostly they should be told the truth that over a long enough period of time virtually every person on the planet will contract this virus. They should have options for effective treatment. Some groups will have greater risk from getting the shots than from not. If nothing else the materials used to stabilize the mRNA in the shots are known to be harmful to some degree. In most people they probably will not cause problems but in some they will. This is no different than most people can eat peanut butter but it kills some people or most people can be stung by a bee and suffer nothing but the pain but some people die from the toxins in the bee sting. So there is really no universally safe active ingredients that can be ingested or injected. So “safe” is relative. You don’t know precisely what will happen to any single individual until it happens. So every option should be available and understood and people should be allowed to choose. We the People should demand our so-called experts and leaders be held accountable for providing the facts, information, and being committed to freedom of choice based on actual data and facts. Those who chose to wear a mask should be allowed to do so. Those who choose not to should be allowed that choice. The same with the shots. Neither should be mandated or scorned and certainly not made a condition for employment. Nothing can be known with enough certainty as to be a mandate for everyone.

  • Liz Rome says:

    Excellent -easy to understand summary-thanks! And I agree with all the comments about politicizing data. AFT and companies selling vaccine are powerful. One question: I heard for a few minutes before info was removed (for being misinformation?–Hmm..) that-only SYMPTOMATIC people are spreading Delta variant–not asymptomatic. Is that true? If so, then no need for vaccinated people to wear masks unless/until symptoms? Either way-there’s been way too much flip-flopping, exaggerating, disregarding actual statistics and data for CDC to have any credibility for me. This grandmother is NOT-NOT wearing a mask!

  • Herman Cain says:

    “I recommend AGAINST the vax”
    How did this work out for Dr. Foley?
    “Passed away peacefully on October 15, 2021 after an unexpected illness.”
    I wonder which illness it was?

    • Kevin Roche says:

      It is really a sign of a decent human being to mock the death of another person, I know Dr. Foley and I assure you his death is not the result of what you think it is. And you might look at today’s breakthrough death report–160 new deaths reported in vaxed persons. Do me a favor and don’t read the blog any more.

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